Conversations with Masayuki Matsubara on Friendship and Ikigai

*Watch the full playlist above.

Embracing the Power of Small Joys

As we age, we come to understand the significance of the small pleasures in life. This rings true for Masayuki, who developed an appreciation for these little joys during his life's journey.

Finding small joys

Nick: I remember you being quite fluent the day we met, and that was a strange day when we met, and we'll touch on that. But let's touch on music. I see you as a professional musician. You're incredible at composing, playing music in many styles; you can play piano, saxophone.

I believe music is a source of ikigai for you. I've seen you play, and when you play, you seem to lose yourself and you slip into this flow state. So is music a strong source of ikigai for you?

Masayuki: Absolutely. I'm deeply moved by the sound I create, and it becomes a powerful source of ikigai for me.

Nick: Nice. Well, as you know, I've been running this podcast and business on ikigai for a while, and I guess it's quite unusual for Japanese to think, here's someone doing a podcast and they've got a business related to the concept.

So how do you understand ikigai and what does the word mean to you? Because I don't think we ever discussed it. We discussed other words, but not ikigai. So what does the word mean to you?

Masayuki: I guess, ikigai is the purpose of life. Although, as I get older, I realise the purpose of life is to find small joys in daily life and be moved by them. But when I was younger, I only felt ikigai when I achieved a goal or something.

Nick: That's interesting. Because when we met, we were very ambitious and purpose-driven or goal-driven, and we achieved quite a lot together. But I think I'm very like you in that regard, that the small things in life add up to a meaningful life.

I guess when you're young, you have this ambition and think 'If I achieve this goal, that's it. Life will be perfect.' And we know that's not the case. But the journey of achieving the goal is often very life-changing.

A Shared Journey of Ikigai

Can ikigai be shared? Nick and his close friend Masayuki reminisce about the time they embarked on a business venture together—an experience that gave them a shared sense of ikigai.

Experiences of shared ikigai

Nick: So we did quite a few things and achieved many things together, what I would call shared ikigai experiences. And so the first was starting this English conversation school together. That was a leap of faith for you to start a business with a total stranger, so why did you start that business with me?

Masayuki: I quickly recognize you as an honest and funky person who is serious about starting business with me. And I don't know why, but I just thought we could get along well.

Nick: We've never really reminisced on this, so it's fun to do this on this podcast. And, yeah, that was a challenging and exciting experience, and we were starting from nothing. So we had to find students, you had to create a website, we had to advertise, create a curriculum.

So it was kind of a high risk for me in a way, because I was leaving a pretty good job. I had a four-day week job with, I guess, a full time income and security in that job, but I just couldn't stand teaching there anymore. And so we both obviously thought this is worth doing.

It was a very meaningful experience, I think. We had lots of fun, we had challenges, and, of course, we had this social dimension to the school because we had all these people from Tajimi, your community, join.

So when I look back on these memories of the school, I now see it was this ibasho for some of our students, their place to be themselves. So, yeah, I think many students came to our school just because it was a carefree, comfortable place where they could meet other people and connect.

So what do you think? Do you think it was an ibasho?

Masayuki: Yeah, that's exactly ibasho for many people. They say they feel comfortable here and they can have relationships with others without family, coworkers, or school friends. This makes them feel safe.

Transformative Journeys: Life-Changing Experiences

Masayuki shares the learnings he gained from embarking on a business venture with Nick. He discusses how these experiences, which were both enjoyable and challenging, have greatly contributed to their personal and professional growth.

Learning and growing along the way

Nick: So that ties in all these elements of ikigai like change and growth. So for us that was this challenge. We expressed our creative self.

We had this sense of freedom and fun in doing the competition. I mean, all of the things we've done. But what's important when I reflect now is that these were shared challenges: opening the school, creating the language products, entering the web design competition, and it wasn't always fun and easy.

We had to work really hard, there were setbacks and frustrations, yet they were transformative for us. I really grew out of these experiences. I probably gained more confidence in myself. So what about you? How did these challenges or experiences change you? What did you learn from them?

Masayuko: These challenges taught me valuable lessons and helped me grow personally and professionally. We gained a deeper understanding of our strengths and weaknesses, and we honed our problem-solving skills.

Moreover, these experiences allowed us to develop a broader perspective and expand our knowledge and capabilities. We learned to adapt to new situations and think creatively to overcome challenges.

We discovered the significance of collaboration and effective communication in achieving our goals. But I wasn't good at communication, you are good at communication. I know you listen carefully and understand me. I learned a lot from you and I appreciate you.

Nick: Likewise, I learned a lot. We had our challenges at times and our differences. I think, looking back, if I was to do it again, I would probably approach it with more acceptance and understanding of Japanese culture. In Japan, things are done differently, and there is often less communication. You don't always have to say what is obvious.

I think I learned not to talk things up. In the West, we often talk things up and say 'We are going to do this, it is going to be great.' 'You should have done that.' 'Why don't you do this?' We are very direct with our language.

I definitely learned the power of– this is the situation, let's accept or move from here, and focus on what we want to achieve. Rather than worry about who has done what or if there has been a problem, just move past it.

It really helped me grow and understand relationships in Japan and accepting different points of view and not being overly stressed. As you know, I used to get really stressed about things all the time. Do we have enough students at the school? And all that sort of thing.

Discovering Ikigai through Helping and Gratitude

Masayuki reveals how he feels his ikigai through the simple pleasures of life. Whether it's heartfelt conversations with his children or offering help to others and being appreciated for it, he finds profound fulfillment and purpose.

Finding purpose in life’s small moments

Nick: I know this is kind of strange for you, because Japanese don't ask questions like what's your ikigai? Or what does ikigai mean to you?

So it's probably a bit unusual for you to think about these questions, but in your life now, apart from work, and web design, and music, are there any other things that come to mind that are sources of ikigai for you? What gives you ikigai?

Masayuki: Well, ikigai. So, as I told you, I realise that the purpose of life, ikigai, is to find small joy in daily life and be moved by them. Ikigai is when I, for example, when I talk to my children, see a beautiful sunset, create beautiful websites, and when my clients are happy with my work.

And in my opinion, humans are designed to feel happiest when they help others and receive appreciation, as well as when they witness the beauty of nature or human creation.

Nick: Well, on that theme, you certainly helped me a lot when we worked together. And we just didn't work together, we have this friendship. So I have a lot of gratitude for what you did for me, and I know at times I was this emotional mess. I'd be struggling with life, with the school, or living in Japan, and I'd often be quite emotional to you.

But yeah, you were this constant in my life that you helped me at really important times in my life. And I agree with you, ikigai involves helping others and having gratitude for what others do for you. So thank you for all that you did for me while I lived in Japan and even afterwards.

For the full podcast conversation, go to: Friendship and Ikigai: The Shared Journey of Meaning and Connection