Where is your place to cultivate meaningful connections and personal growth?
In this episode of the Ikigai Podcast, Nick speaks with Tomoe Ueyama and Gloria Tam to explore how fourth spaces can help people build authentic relationships and embark on a journey of self-discovery.
Podcast Highlights
- Tomoe and Gloria’s profile. Tomoe and Gloria introduce themselves.
- Spaces for connection. Tomoe explains the concept of third and fourth places.
- Fourth place as a form of ibasho. Tomoe and Gloria explore the similarities between the concept of the fourth place and ibasho.
- Japan as a place for meaningful career transitions. Tomoe and Gloria share why Japan is a prime location for purpose-driven career shifts and intergenerational collaboration.
- The significance of Project MINT. Tomoe and Gloria explain what project MINT is.
- On collaborating to create Project MINT. Tomoe and Gloria discuss how they started Project MINT.
- Defining purpose and ikigai. Tomoe and Gloria share their definitions of purpose and ikigai.
- The impact of Project MINT. Tomoe and Gloria talk about how they helped people discover new career paths.
- Tomoe’s ikigai. Tomoe shares what her ikigai is.
- Gloria’s ikigai. Gloria shares what her ikigai is.
Tomoe Ueyama
Gloria Tam
Tomoe Ueyama and Gloria Tam co-founded Project MINT, a transformative initiative dedicated to helping mid-to-late career professionals redefine their paths. By guiding individuals to uncover their personal purpose and ikigai, Project MINT fosters sustainable, fulfilling careers. Their approach has empowered over 150 alumni, with 70% successfully transitioning into more meaningful roles. Recognized internationally, their adult education model has been featured in The New York Times, earning widespread acclaim.
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Tomoe and Gloria's profile
Tomoe Ueyama and Gloria Tam co-founded Project MINT to help professionals discover their purpose and ikigai, empowering them to transition into more fulfilling careers. Tomoe, passionate about reimagining leadership in Japan, envisions Project MINT as a space for meaningful discussions and authentic connections.
Gloria, originally from Hong Kong and now based in the U.S., brings her expertise in lifelong learning, leading course design at Harvard’s Division of Continuing Education. With experience at organizations like Boston Consulting Group and World Health Organization, she specializes in purpose-driven leadership and systems thinking, aiming to help individuals unlock their potential and find meaning in their journeys.
Spaces for connection
Tomoe wrote an article for Forbes about a new kind of social space for connection, which she calls the fourth place. The concept of the third place was introduced by sociologist Ray Oldenburg in 1989, as a social environment outside of home (first place) and work (second place), such as cafes, parks, or community centers, where people connect and foster a sense of belonging. The fourth place goes beyond this, serving as a space for self-renewal, deep reflection, and collective meaning-making.
Unlike the third place, the fourth place is a challenging environment that embraces uncertainty and diverse perspectives, promoting personal growth. It has no single origin but has evolved as an extension of the third place. The fourth place is characterized by seven key traits:
A place for meaning-making
Intentional programs
A space of nonjudgmental empathy
A place without answers
Respecting individual choices
An environment without charismatic leaders
Sustainable connections
Tomoe shares that Project MINT embodies the fourth place by providing a trusted community where mid- and late-career professionals explore identity, aspirations, and life transitions beyond work and social norms. Through guided discussions and shared experiences, members reflect, redefine their paths, and support one another. Rather than offering fixed solutions, Project MINT fosters curiosity and long-term connections through ongoing events and collaborations.
Fourth places as a form of ibasho
Ibasho and the fourth place share similarities, but ibasho has a broader meaning in Japanese culture, signifying a ‘place for being.’ It offers belonging through contribution or simply presence, without requiring structure or intent. In contrast, the fourth place is an intentional space for reflection, deep connection, and personal growth.
While ibasho naturally exists in everyday settings, such as a teenager’s hangout spot, the fourth place is designed to help individuals reflect on their roles in home (first place) and work (second place). It fosters non-judgmental empathy and self-discovery, helping people improve their relationships and communication.
Gloria adds that ibasho extends across generations, citing examples from Japan and the Philippines, where communities rebuilt social connections after disasters. These spaces empower individuals through shared activities, reinforcing purpose and belonging. Ultimately, ibasho embodies the spirit of ikigai, where meaning emerges through connection and contribution.
Japan as a place for meaningful career transitions
Japan’s aging population and increasing life expectancy are reshaping traditional career paths, making it a hub for purpose-driven career shifts. Tomoe highlights Japan’s role in pioneering lifelong learning, intergenerational mentorship, and meaningful second or third careers, setting an example for other aging societies.
Gloria shares insights from Project MINT, a community supporting professionals of all ages in career transformation. Participants come from diverse backgrounds—artists, scientists, executives, and retirees—exploring personal purpose through structured programs on ikigai, self-reflection, and future planning. The initiative fosters personal and leadership transformation, with all surveyed participants reporting a stronger sense of purpose.
The significance of Project MINT
Project MINT stands for Meaning, Ikigai, Network, and Transform, reflecting its mission of fostering renewal, growth, and community. Beyond the acronym, the name symbolizes fresh starts and self-renewal, aligning with the idea of a ‘fourth space’ for personal and professional transformation.
Additionally, MINT originates from ‘mentors and interns,’ emphasizing lifelong learning, curiosity, and intergenerational mentorship. The project encourages individuals of all ages to continue growing, contributing, and embracing new opportunities, reinforcing the belief that learning and reinvention have no age limit.
On collaborating to create Project MINT
Tomoe met Gloria through Minerva University, where Gloria was a faculty member in the professional learning team. After completing her master’s degree, Tomoe sought guidance on starting a business in Japan focused on empowering mature adults through education.
Their discussions led them to identify a crucial need—helping mid-career professionals find fulfillment, purpose, and ikigai in their work. Together, they designed Project MINT, integrating purpose-driven leadership with skills like decision-making, systems thinking, and emotional intelligence to support career and personal transformation.
Defining purpose and ikigai
Gloria and Tomoe define purpose as a deep, authentic essence that gives meaning to life and remains constant despite career or life changes. Purpose is often outward-facing, tied to impact, and shared with others. Gloria describes it as a ‘common thread’ running through one's experiences, while Tomoe emphasizes its role in contributing to something beyond oneself, fostering motivation, resilience, and fulfillment.
Ikigai, on the other hand, is more dynamic and personal. It can be a fleeting moment, a state of mind, or a simple source of joy, without necessarily being tied to serving others. While ikigai can sometimes lead to a sense of purpose, it is broader and includes self-pleasure and everyday happiness. It may also develop through relationships and shared experiences, making it a flexible and evolving concept.
Discovering a new career path with Project MINT's guidance
Project MINT has produced alumni who have transformed their careers; Takahiro, after 30 years in advertising, discovered his purpose. At age 50, he transitioned into a freelance life coach, helping retirees and second-career seekers while continuing to learn and grow. Maya, a housewife for 30 years, sought a new path after her children became independent. Through Project MINT, she found her purpose in fostering meaningful family dialogues. She now creates spaces for parents and children to connect, and works with young families in her community.
Tomoe’s ikigai
Tomoe's ikigai is deeply rooted in human connection. She finds fulfillment in interacting with people, motivating and empowering them, especially Project MINT alumni. She enjoys creating a safe space where individuals can be their authentic selves, share struggles, and support each other without judgment. Despite differences in backgrounds and generations, she values genuine connections, deep conversations, and collective growth. For Tomoe, fostering this kind of supportive environment gives her work and life profound meaning.
Gloria’s ikigai
Gloria sees her purpose as solving complex societal challenges that require collective wisdom, which drives her passion for education and learning. This motivation led her to create the Project MINT community to help others tackle difficult problems. However, she feels her ikigai is still a journey of exploration. She experiences it most when she enters a flow state—deeply immersed, engaged, and challenged by her work in education and innovation. For Gloria, ikigai isn't just what gets her up in the morning—it’s what keeps her awake at night, fully absorbed in her passion for problem-solving and discovery.
Conclusion
There are moments when we feel lost and question our sense of purpose. Fortunately, fourth spaces like Project MINT offer a supportive community, helping individuals rediscover their purpose through self-exploration and meaningful connections.