Prof. Shogo Tanaka on Aida and Intercorporeality

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Intercorporeality: What is it?

Shogo explains the concept of intercorporeality, an important idea proposed by the French philosopher Maurice Merleau-Ponty. This concept revolves around the relationship between one's own body and that of others.

Understanding the concept of intercorporeality

Nick: First, I think we should begin with your paper. So your paper ‘Intercorporeality and aida: Developing an interaction theory of social cognition.’ And it touches on many theories, interaction theory, theory of the mind, theory theory and simulation theory.

And I really don't know anything about those theories. Perhaps we should start with the first word in the title. What is intercorporeality?

Shogo: Yes, thank you for the question. Well, it is a very nice point to start the interview. Intercorporeality is an important concept proposed by a French philosopher, Maurice Merleau-Ponty in one of his books published in 1950s. And this concept focuses on the potential relationship in which two or more bodies are always and already embedded.

For example, consider the case of contagious yawning. When you see someone else yawn, it will make you yawn as well sometimes. So here is a potential relationship between you and another, and that manifests through yawning.

The point is, that when you perceive another’s bodily action, your body resonates with it, and sometimes repeat it through your body. And also it gives you a sense of meaning of another's action. And according to Merleau-Ponty, intercorporeality is the most fundamental dimension of our social understanding.

Understanding another’s mental state that's from sensory motor capacity to resonate with another's body and action. So there is a kind of perception action loop between one's own body and that of another. So this is the very basic idea of intercorporeality.

Nick: It already sounds quite complex, but when I saw contagious yawning, it actually reminded me of, I guess, a teenage memory: I had a friend, and I think we were hanging out together and one of my friends yawned, and I think I yawned. And he said yawning is contagious. And we just thought he was joking. He was like ‘No, it's real. There’s a theory behind it.’

So I guess this idea that yawning is contagious is a good symbolic representation of what you just mentioned, this idea of loop, perception, action, and we kind of model behaviors we understand without even thinking about it.

Understanding Aida: The Gap Between Things

Aida is a Japanese word with two meanings: a gap between things or a time between events. It's just an empty space, but for Shogo it can also connect things or people creatively.

Defining aida (betweenness)

Nick: Let's move on to aida. This is a word I'm very familiar with. I think it was one of the first Japanese words I learned when I started to read. So it has this very basic meaning of ‘in between’, but it also has a very different meaning in the context of what we're talking about today.

So how would you describe aida?

Shogo: Well, aida is a very common word in Japanese language, and it means the gap, simply the gap between two things or two persons. Sometimes it refers to a spatial gap, and other times it refers to a temporal gap between two events.

The interesting point included in the concept of aida is that it’s just a spatial or temporal gap, and itself it is nothing —it’s just a gap. It's nothing in itself. However, aida is a sort of creative nothing through which the relation between two things manifests.

Let us take up an example of the so-called personal space. Do you know about personal space?

Nick: Yes, we don't want to invade people's personal space and get too close to them.

Shogo: Yeah. Well, if you feel intimate with someone else, you will naturally come closer to that person. But if you see an unfamiliar person, you will never be that close. So in this case, the aida between two persons is the spatial gap.

The gap, it’s just a gap, and it is a vacant place and empty place, but through which their relationship manifests. So, it is originally nothing but it is something creative, which constructs the relationship between two persons.

And vice versa, if you can come closer to a certain person, the aida will change its aspect and you will have a chance to communicate and feel familiar with that person. So aida is nothing in itself. Let me repeat, aida is nothing in itself. But when you can focus on that you will notice how creative it is.

Aida and Ma: The Creativity of Nothingness

Shogo shares the contribution of Japanese psychiatrist Bin Kimura to the study of aida, arguing that the origin of one’s subjective experience doesn't solely arise from within the body; rather, it emerges in the space, aida, between the body and the surrounding environment.

Subjectivity and intersubjectivity on nothingness

Nick: One thing I remembered reading or learning is aida or ma is like the space between musical notes. And without the space between the notes, the music wouldn't be meaningful, it wouldn't be dynamic, it wouldn't be beautiful, it wouldn't be powerful.

So the idea that a gap or nothingness is something creative is really interesting. And in your paper, you reference a Japanese phenomenological psychiatrist, Bin Kimura, so would you like to talk about him and his contribution to aida?

Shogo: Well, yes. Bin Kimura used to be one of the leading figure in the field of phenomenological psychopathology since 1970s. Unfortunately, he passed away two years ago, but in his later years, since 2000, he was much oriented to philosophy.

So probably we can say that he started his career as a psychiatrist, but he died as a philosopher. And I like Kimura’s work on aida. So let me talk about a bit on his work on aida. I like his idea because he was a very unique phenomenologist who described not only pathological symptoms based on aida but also more fundamental phenomenon such as the origin of our subjective experience or our intersubjective experience.

Well, according to his view, the origin of our subjectivity is in aida; aida means in between. And aida of one's body, well, according to him, the origin of a subjective experience is in aida of one's own body and the surrounding environment —not really coming from within the body, but it is in between the body and the surrounding environment.

And you can have the same sort of subjective experience because your body is anchored in a certain environment and the body can keep the same tendency of actions. For example, you may repeat particular emotional experiences when you're singing in a choir being surrounded by the same people or just singing in the same church or in the same hall.

And intersubjective experiences are given in the same manner; when you are embedded within a certain interpersonal environment, you can share senses of mood with others such as vibrant or cohesive or calm or dull, and so on.

So Kimura’s focus is always on the creativity of nothingness that I referred to earlier. He is one to try to base the notions of subjectivity and intersubjectivity on nothingness. And I think his view is continuous to the tradition of Japanese philosophy, such as Kitaro Nishida’s which emphasizes the notion of nothingness. Well, I hope it doesn't sound so complicated.

Exploring the Distinction Between Aida and Ma

Although coming from the same kanji, Shogo argues that there is a distinction between aida (betweenness) and ma (space).

The difference in meaning between aida and ma

Nick: As I mentioned before, the kanji for aida can be also read as ma. So is there a difference in nuance or meaning between ma and aida?

Shogo: Both were coming from the same word, so the very basic meaning are the same, but aida is rather focused on a kind of static and spatial aspect, whereas ma is rather used to refer to a more dynamic and temporal aspect of aida.

Let me give you a few examples: when people say ma ga warui, it could be translated that timing is bad, the timing is not very well. It refers to the fact that the ongoing interpersonal interactions among people are not very well combined in their timings. So, they are not very well synchronized. And the people are sharing that kind of bad mood or awkward mood derived from it.

Another example is ma wo awaseru, it could be translated as adjusting the temporality with others. And it refers to the situation in which you are trying to interact with another person in an appropriate timing to match better in their communication.

So in both cases, ma refers to the creativity of time, timing, and temporality in interpersonal interactions. So this would be the difference between aida and ma.

Nick: So I've seen ma referenced to Noh theater, the silence between these kind of sharp sounds and also in architecture, and there was a Japanese architect who described ma as… He said that ma is glorious, so it's just beautiful to have this space. And he really loved this idea of ma in architecture.

So it might be hard for, I think, our audience to maybe understand, but I think they'll gain an appreciation as we keep discussing these themes of aida or ma.

Truth and Love as a Source of Ikigai

Shogo shares how he finds ikigai through his constant search for truth in his studies, taking care of the environment, and helping others

Shogo’s definition of ikigai

Nick: When you think of ikigai, what comes to mind in terms of definition?

Shogo: The meaning of the word would be very simple but something that makes me feel worth living, as we understand normally in Japanese language. I do not have any special definition of ikigai.

Nick: So does studying psychology and philosophy give you the feeling of ikigai?

Shogo: Yeah. Well, it sounds like a very difficult question, but just let me try to articulate my answers as much as possible, of my ikigai. Well, as I am a scholar, so I am in search of truth in the first place. So the search of truth is the most important process that make my life worth living.

And well to be exaggerated a bit, the truth for which I can live and a truth for which I can die, is the most important thing in my life. And what I have found as truth so far is the idea or the concept of embodiment; our body is the ultimate source of knowledge, wisdom, and the self.

And the embodied self is something that is always imagined through embodied interaction with the surrounding embodiment, not coming from within, but interaction within the surrounding environment.

In other words, my embodied self is always embedded within aida of myself and the environment, or aida of myself and the others. If so, what I found that truth is not confined within my personal and private self, but it's related to the others and the environment that may constitute important parts of myself.

So taking care of the others and taking care of the environment is a continuous part of my ikigai. The best word to describe this part of my ikigai would be love; loving others as I love myself, or loving the environment as I love myself is an expression of what I found as truth. So in this regard, I can say that truth and love could be my ikigai.

Nick: I can relate, I often describe ikigai as intimacy: we can have emotional intimacy, intellectual intimacy, obviously physical, but we can have an intimacy with nature. So definitely, I feel it can be described as a type of love.

And if we frame it in this embodied perspective, I guess a good advice would be to say, go out more, have more experiences, meet more people, do different things, and try to tune into your bodily awareness with each experience.

For the full podcast conversation, go to: Navigating Aida and Intercorporeality