Inclusion Meets Ikigai: Jennifer Shinkai’s Perspective on Japan

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Being at Home in Japan

Being in Japan for more than two decades, Jennifer shares what it is like living in Japan, which she now considers her home, as a foreigner.

I feel okaerinasai in Japan

Nick: So I lived there for 10 years. I probably call Japan my spirit country, and I might go back. But yeah, I'm not sure it ever felt like home for me. But does it feel like home for you?

Jennifer: Yes and no. So yes, in the case of thinking about when I get back to Japan, I feel okaerinasai, I walk into a home where my immediate family is here. I have a lovely community, and I really enjoyed my life. I miss my family in the UK horrendously. 

And, you know, one of the things when I built my business was August is for Europe. Like when we go to England, maybe we used to spend two weeks in France, and just like to have a holiday together. That was how it was built or designed, because it's kind of a quiet time for the industry. That part is sort of what I miss.

And I feel like now many of those kinds of home things, you know, foodstuffs or whatever, you can get them: toothpaste, deodorant, some things that are very, very superficial. 

So yes, in some ways, like, this is where my life is, this is where I've lived all of my adult life as well, like a lot of my kind of, not my formative experiences, but my later experiences as an adult have been here, the birth of my children here. And no, also though, because I'm always going to be othered. Because I'm a white foreigner. 

So I'm off, I'm constantly reminded with questions like, when will you go back to your home country? And asking to be, not in a like, you know, go home foreigner so often, but just the disbelief that I'm here forever.

So that's a little bit of a difference. And I was thinking as well, maybe one of the questions have been, has Japan and England gone through the World cup, who would've I supported?

Understanding “Inclusion”

What is it like to experience inclusion in Japan? Inclusion can be considered as being a part of a group or community. For Jennifer, to experience inclusion in a homogeneous society like Japan, one has to conform to many Japanese norms. 

Trying to find a place in Japan requires a lot of sacrifice

Nick: This touches on, I guess, the theme of this podcast, inclusion. And I know that's really important to you. And so I thought, well, what is inclusion? Some of us have a vague idea, I'm sure you have a very clear idea of what it is. So I thought I'll look this up and provide some context. So according to inclusion.me.uk:

 "Inclusion is seen as a universal human right. The aim of inclusion is to embrace all people irrespective of race, gender, disability, medical or other need. It's about giving equal access and opportunities and getting rid of discrimination and intolerance (removal of barriers)." 

And this is fascinating in the context of living in Japan, either as a foreigner or even as a Japanese. And so I do have all these questions for you, both your life experience, but also what you observe of Japanese.

Because we know a lot of Japanese suffer from bullying, or many Japanese just choose to remove themselves from society, because it can be a very hard life, with all the conformity. So, with that definition in mind, how would you describe inclusion in Japan? And how does it play out in such a homogeneous society?

Jennifer: Yeah, well, I think the first myth that Japan is a homogenous society, that is simply not true. I'm not a statistics expert or anything from that perspective. But the story of we are homogenous, and with all the same Japanese exceptionalism.

But there's as many different needs, there's lots of intersectionality, there's people from the LGBTQ+ community that have different ways of showing up in the workplace, there's neuro diversity, there's people who have different heritage, different backgrounds, because we have Chinese and Koreans, and so on. 

There's always been diversity in Japan. But the narrative of we are all the same, we are homogenous, as it's a political and social structure that serves and has worked very well for Japanese society, from my perspective. But now, I think there's more awareness of what are the limiting factors of that.

And as you said, hikikomori, who are locking themselves away in their home, high suicide rates, mental illness, a sense of, you know, I love that you talk about ibasho, because I think that trying to find a place in Japan requires quite a lot of sacrifice on the part of the individual. And that comes at a price. So the price of inclusion is quite high. 

And you have to hide parts of yourself, you have to grin and bear it. So it's a cost to show up authentically, to be fully yourself. And many people are just like, they see someone who pays that price, and then he thought they were strange persons like, oh, hang on.

Yeah, I don't want to be in that. So parts of society can be quite unforgiving if you fit outside the norms. And I always forget the Japanese translation, the original and I'm sure you know it, the nail that sticks out gets hammered down. That's the received wisdom. And let's have inclusion.

Nick: This is interesting. It sort of reminded me of a few things. I remember correcting students saying, this expression "We Japanese do this or that", I remember thinking how odd, and it's grammatically correct, but we don't say this sort of thing in English.

It really made me think that there is this general sense among Japanese on what is correct or right, or how things should be. Because I use this expression, "We Japanese think this or we Japanese do this." 

And yeah, to sort of go back to what you're saying, there is diversity in Japan, but I guess, my perception of Japan is what you've pointed out to be individualistic, or to be from a minority group, whether that's, you're gay, or you're half Japanese, or Korean, or you're just a bit different.

There'll be great concern on how you're accepted. And my assumption is, for most part, you won't be fully accepted. You'll have to face a lot of criticism, resistance.

I've actually got a Japanese friend who told me, "I've told no one that I'm half Korean, do not tell anyone." But he kind of had this need to let me know. And it really shocked me how fearful he was of anyone in his community finding out.

Role of Ibasho in Inclusion

Having ibasho (authentic relationship) is an essential aspect of inclusion. Being around people who understand you and feel the same way can provide a feeling of acceptance and belongingness.

If you're feeling it, someone else is as well

Jennifer: I did an inclusion workshop a couple of years ago in an organisation. And we were talking about experiences when I felt excluded, and when I felt included. And one of the participants, within his 30s, a Japanese guy, said that: "People are describing these feelings of inclusion, what it's like, I've never had that in any space." And so this concept of ibasho, he's never experienced.

Nick: We should define what ibasho is. So there is this sub-theory of ikigai, and ibasho used to just mean "whereabouts", but now it translates to "your place to be." And there is this theory that I discussed with Dr. Shintaro Kono on Episode 17, where it is about this place of belonging, where you feel accepted and genuinely cared for.

And this strongly relates to ikigai. Because ikigai has this important social element. And ibasho could be the interpersonal aspect of ikigai, and obviously, this would relate to inclusion. So this example you've just offered, I think it'd be very hard for that man to feel ikigai, if they're thinking I don't belong anywhere.

Jennifer: And you're always having to put on a front to be someone else. It's so painful to even consider. And I think that it can be with this idea of homogenous society. So if you don't fit into that, then can you feel ikigai from the social aspect?

I think you have to go out and like, find that tribe, you have to go out and try to find those people because they do exist. And I do systems coaching, and one of those things is, if you're feeling it someone else is as well. 

Your voice is the voice of the system. It's never just you. And once you start to like open Pandora's box, but once you do start to open these conversations of feelings of isolation or feelings of not belonging, you start to realise so many people around you are also experiencing that.

Even just that knowledge that you're not alone. Thinking about the ikigai-9, that you matter to someone that you have meaning to someone, it can kind of open that up, that my experience isn't unique. And it's actually like a shared part of humanity.

There’s More to Discover About Ikigai

Jennifer was first introduced to the concept of ikigai while she was going through some changes in her life. Wanting to enhance her knowledge on the topic, she gathered insights from different people which helped deepen her understanding of the concept.

Ikigai is a broad concept

Nick: Ikigai means different things to different people. And we kind of know most Japanese don't really talk about it, and they certainly don't use a Venn diagram. And it sounds like from your Google Trends search, the most popular term being no ikigai or lack of ikigai. It's really interesting how it's become this buzzword and misunderstood.

But that's often the case, many words get misunderstood outside of Japan, wabi-sabi and Kintsugi. The list could go on and on. But what happened to you when you first stumbled upon the word?

Because I do have a really vivid memory of when I was introduced to it. And it was, again, in a very, really casual conversation, but what about yourself? When were you introduced to the word?

Jennifer: I think it was after I had my career change, and I remember thinking, because I was introduced to it through the Venn diagram, actually. So that must have been like, six, seven. I was like, Whoa, I wish I'd had this tool when I was planning my career change.

And then with being exposed to different ideas, like listening to your podcast, as I mentioned, at the beginning, I really was like, oh, there's quite a lot more to this topic. That sort of deepened my interest. And I was approached to write a book, and I wrote a proposal.

And then the agent said, this is great, but it's like only your experience of what you think ikigai is, so you need to get some other voices. And that's when the podcast started, I was like, I need to interview people about what they think it means, how they've used this concept, different types of ways of integrating the concept of ikigai.

Because I was quite frustrated that in a lot of literature, in English anyway, it was like, I have to be 100 years old living in an island paradise, or I have to be some artists and mastering some craft, like the examples which are available to me. 

But you know, at the time, I was like a 30 something with a mortgage, an office job and two kids, I don't seem to be like, hitting any of those examples of living with ikigai. So is it an option for me? And is it something which I can only achieve if I live in Japan? Like you know, this is something which is geographically bound.

So that's where I went. Oh, and there were also these stories of like, oh, you have to like work for an MPO. Because it was a lot like something the world needs, it was kind of like this good works in the world vibe, as well as like the payment piece that kind of came through.

And so just hearing different ways that people interpret it has really deepened and expanded. And I think that for me,  I'm loving more about the concept of ikigai. Now I'm learning more about it, and how expansive it is.

And it can be those small things. It can be those moments, it can be looking forward to something. It can be looking through old photos -- just anything. So right now, as I say this, I'm getting goosebumps. So for me, that's like ikigai, because my body is having a physical response to the emotions of what I'm saying. And I can feel that my body is alive.

Nick: Yeah, you feel it. That was sort of the key learning, something you feel, not achieve or chase. And so it really opens that door to how it's very subjective and personal. And it can even be private, that's something Ken Mogi said to me, it can be something private, and might be something that a Japanese person won't discuss, they'll keep it to themselves.

But we know Japanese really don't discuss the word, it's something they feel. And unfortunately, it's something many Japanese also don't feel.

Importance of Ikigai in Challenging Times

During the time of Covid, Jennifer shares how ikigai helped her through this trying time by building an online community.

Being part of a community provides a feeling of ikigai

Jennifer: That's what I found the hardest with all lockdowns in COVID; was that all of that looking forward to stuff was sort of taken away from me. It obviously wasn't taken away from me, but I felt like it was no longer there. 

And those, you know, I talked earlier, like the annual trip to the UK, obviously, that was off, and when would it be on. And just events and the cycle of life had been put on hold. And it really took me quite a long time.

In fact, I'm not really sure I ever quite processed it. Because then sort of the cycle of life kind of came back in. But it really knocked me for quite a while. I made a replacement because I made this online community, which had a meeting every Monday and every Friday, because I had to put in some structure. Because there was no work. 

For a while there was like online work wasn't hadn't kind of come up, no one knew, everybody just cancelled. We don't know what the economy is going to do. So you know, recruitment training, they're always the first to go as investments. Right?

That's where the first freeze comes. So it's always, yeah. So just for me, building that community was a thing, which gave a different layer to my ikigai. Because I thought that I could only feel these things when I was in the room with people.

Nick: COVID's been really interesting. And it has become a case study for several ikigai papers on the impacts of COVID on people's ikigai. And, yes, Zoom has been this interesting experience, from everyone, I guess, this idea of zoom fatigue, where people are spending way too much time on Zoom.

But to us, I guess, having this experience of building communities, I pretty much built the Ikigai Tribe because of COVID. Because COVID happened, I lost my previous business essentially, once COVID happened.

And I thought, what am I going to do? And I put my focus on the Ikigai Tribe and yeah, connecting to all these different people all over the world and doing my podcast. And that's become a source of ikigai.

So it's interesting how you pointed out, for you as a coach, to see people on the verge of growing or changing and how that goes back to one of the statements of the ikigai-9 psychometric tool that you feel you're making a contribution to someone, or having an impact on someone. 

There is this crucial social element attached to the role in ikigai that seems really important to you, as I guess, a coach or a mentor. And the COVID thing has offered us a different approach, I guess, on how to do that.

And we can do that online and feel these meaningful relationships. I've only met one person in person from my community. Everyone else is, I haven't met yet. And yet, we've shared tears together, laughter, we feel really connected. 

So it's interesting how the world can change so rapidly in two years, and it offers these new sources of ikigai.

For the full podcast conversation, go to: Exploring Ikigai And Inclusion In Japan With Jennifer Shinkai