
Ken Mogi explores how individuals can discover their ikigai by embracing the five pillars of this Japanese philosophy in episode 04 of the Ikigai Podcast.
Ken Mogi is a neuroscientist and has a Ph.D. in physics from the University of Tokyo. He has also authored over 100 books, including The Little Book of Ikigai.
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What is The Kodawari Concept?
Japanese people are known for the efforts they give in everything they do. They have this term, kodawari (relentless pursuit of perfection), which they apply in their crafts. What is this Japanese concept of kodawari? Ken explains and gives an example of this concept.
A central element of ikigai
Nick: You've been really prolific in the last few months on YouTube with an English channel sharing gold nuggets of wisdom. So I really enjoy your YouTube videos and I'll definitely link your channel. Why did you decide to start that?
Ken: I've always had my Japanese YouTube channel and posted something in English from time to time but because of this pandemic many of my travel assignments have been cancelled, so I had some extra time to do something.
Nick: You seem to really enjoy sharing knowledge. So let's do that today with this concept of Kodawari.
Ken, you describe kodawari as “a central element of ikigai; an approach whereby you take extraordinary care of very small details.”
So would you like to elaborate on that?
Ken: I think the typical example would be a ramen noodle restaurant where the owner-chef has such a kodawari about how to make the noodles and soup and ingredients, toppings and so on.
You'll interestingly find out many customers might not actually be aware of the extra length that he would go to make his bowl of ramen noodle, just perfect. People don't care so much. He has this really developed sensitivities of how the noodles should taste in your mouth.
So, I think kodawari is this idea that you have your own rules, you have your own standards and whether it's not supported by the customer or would be appreciated by the market, you do your kodawari anyway.
This is something that goes beyond the market economy and something that is more individualistic and more philosophical even if other people don't notice, you do what you want to do, that is kodawari.
Is Kodawari Unique to Japan?
Is kodawari something unique to Japan? Ken explores this question. Although kodawari has a lot to do with Japanese craftsmanship, Ken believes it is not limited to Japan.
Japan's culture of kodawari and craftsmanship
Nick: Would you say kodawari is something that you feel is generally unique to Japan?
Ken: I wouldn't say that. I'm sure some Australians would have this kodawari. But I think you are aware that kodawari has a lot to do with Japanese craftsmanship. Japanese craftsmen are so particular in the way they do their job.
The key concept is that you do something beyond the reasonable expectations of the market, it's not about efficiency or value-added from your work or whatever, one of these reasonable considerations in the modern economy. It is something more overstate.
In Japanese culture, I think this idea of kodawari is always associated with somebody who is probably not so talkative, not so communicative, who might not be outgoing, who is not extroverted, who is not really diplomatic but just sticks to his or her own way of doing things.
It is a fact that in Japan we have these kinds of people and these kinds of people have been sometimes glorified in dramas and films and novels and so on. Japan has this culture of kodawari and craftsmanship.
But I'm sure in Australia, or in other countries, you do have these people who are very particular about their way. Don’t you have these people?
Nick: I would think so. I know in your book you cite Steve Jobs as someone who had the kodawari spirit, and he definitely did. He had this vision and some of the products he produced, I guess some people would say they were perfect.
They were so easy to use and that design was all about design and experience. He really did have a massive impact on the world and he was very passionate about Japanese culture and Japanese craftsmanship.
So I do think there are people in all countries who probably, whether they know it or not have this kodawari spirit. It seems that it is something very personal and almost private in a sense.
They're not boasting about what they're producing and they let their work or their product express those qualities that result from the work they do or their kodawari spirit.
Kodawari and State of Flow
What do all craftsmen who practice kodawari have in common? For Ken, all these craftsmen are in a state of flow. He believes that they are always in constant motion and that kodawari is synonymous with a flow state.
Having a constant state of flow
Nick: I've thought about this for a while. Does kodawari help you reach a flow state or is it the other way around where you need to be in a flow state to practice kodawari?
Ken: From what I have observed from presenting some TV programs, I also actually interviewed many craftsmen and they seem to be in that state of flow when they do their job.
For example, wajima-nuri is where they produced this lacquerware, where you can have lacquerware painted in black and red and you can use it in traditional tea ceremonies and so on. They are in a constant state of flow.
I think these craftsmen, the same goes for people who make traditional Japanese sweets in Kyoto, restaurant chefs, this includes chefs who are specialists on Italian and French dishes because you can have one of the best Italian French dishes in the world in Tokyo.
These chefs have one thing in common which is they are always in the state of flow. They really like a magician or an athlete in motion, they never stop and are always in motion. There's not a moment when they stop and think "oh, why should I cook this meat or how should I prepare this vegetable?"
They are always in constant motion. It's really beautiful to watch and I do think that kodawari is probably synonymous with a flow state. They achieve a certain level of mastery.
I don't know when they were apprentices and they maybe had some hiccups; when they reach a state of the master being a master, they do have this constant state of flow in which they exercise their kodawari which is very interesting.
Japanese Sake, Whisky & Gin – Miraculous Breakthroughs With Kodawari
Ken explains one crucial aspect of kodawari: people pursue their own goals above and beyond reasonable expectations based on market forces. He gives sake (Japanese rice wine) producers as an example: how they do their craft, not for their own pleasure, but for somebody else, and how Japanese people can produce better qualities of their products.
Pursuing one's goals above and beyond reasonable expectations
Nick: There's one more thing I'd like to talk to you about, Ken, and this is something you mentioned in your book and you write:
“One crucial aspect of kodawari is that people pursue their own goals above and beyond reasonable expectations based on market forces.”
And then you write:
"Eventually, something miraculous happens, a breakthrough, the creation of a new genre of products resulting in a new market where people are prepared to pay premium prices for qualities previously unimagined."
So would you like to offer an example of that?
Ken: Well, something I'm familiar with is a sake, Japanese rice wine. Many rice wine producers really believe what they do is incredible. Maybe you're familiar, you know ginjo, is when you polish the rice until only a tiny fraction of the original grain remains.
Maybe only 10% in extreme cases 20% 30% and so that adds to the purity and resonance of sake taste. What 's funny is that many sake masters actually cannot drink sake. That often happens because they cannot take alcohol.
So, they do not enjoy sake but they produce the best sake. So, that is kind of a contradiction which is very interesting because the craftsmen do this not for their own personal pleasure, but for somebody else.
Sake-making and Japanese whiskey, of course I mean, nowadays Japanese whiskey is really regarded highly in the world market and you cannot really get hold of the best whiskies, like Hibiki, Hakushu, and so on, because they're so rare now.
Also even Japanese gins. Gin is always considered British, I think, but now you can get a really wonderful gin from Kyoto. Kinobi is a Japanese craft gin, and it's really wonderful. It has opened up a whole new world of what gin can be.
It's something beyond belief. I would really love to give you a bottle of kinobi. It would change your concept of gin forever. Do you know kinobi?
Nick: No, I hope we can share a bottle
Ken: One of my best friends, he's based in California. Out of the blue, he sends me this email that says, "Hey Ken! Do you know this gin from Kyoto, kinobi?"
Yeah, of course, I know and he says, "that's the best thing you can get in the world!" He's saying that from California. This is the kind of breakthrough that you're talking about.
Nick: That's another thing about Japan. They'll look at something outside of their culture and think okay, whiskey, let's try and make whiskey. And after 30, 40 years, 50 years, maybe 100 years.
All of a sudden people start talking about this amazing Japanese whiskey and people are going to be talking about this amazing Kinobi gin.
Japanese have this talent for taking something already I guess that's produced at a high standing but putting their own stamp on it and in the process making it perhaps more refined or better quality.
Ken: Yeah, that's one of them. Because many people don't think that's possible. Kodawari actually shatters these preconceptions about what our country is about and what our country is capable of.
Because I would say that probably Japanese wine would be improved so much that in a few years people would start talking about Japanese wine as well, whether it's red or white or sparkling. So it's repeated many many times.
The Power of Starting Small
How can people practice kodawari? Ken explains that it is all about starting small and focusing on the important, tiny details to achieve one's goals.
Small things can make the biggest difference
Nick: This is probably the most interesting aspect of kodawari: in order to practice it, you need to start small. And there is no grand announcement or chest-beating or goal setting. It’s just starting small.
I think I'd describe it as like a baby steps to mastery but there really is no mastery but, it is this baby-steps approach, one thing at a time trying your best to perfect it then moving on to the next step.
That's something you talk about a lot and it's one of your pillars of ikigai that starts small. Is kodawari something you can force and how can we practice kodawari?
Ken: That's the most difficult part, isn't it? The fact is that if you go to a restaurant or any craftsmanship place you really talk about the ultimate goal or ultimate purpose.
You really start from small things like, Hey, can you peel this onion? Or can you make this scrambled egg? or whatever it is, you always start from a specific thing and you almost never talk about the grand goal of achieving something.
That is the spirit of starting small but it's not that shokunin or craftsmen do not have any goals. They do have goals, but they do not mention it. I think this is a great way of starting things because too many times people talk about the ultimate goals.
You can even discuss it in modern settings. For example, people who make games, many kids’ dream job is probably now making games and to be a game producer. You can be grandiose and talk about ultimate goals of producing really wonderful games
But at the end of the day, you start from how to design your characters, how to make it playable, and so on. Nintendo is a company based in Kyoto, and Nintendo of course produced all these wonderful game characters like Super Mario and so on.
I don't think people at Nintendo start from really grandiose ultimate goals they probably start from discussing how we should make the moustache of Mario. This whole attitude of starting from very specific, small things actually makes you go the longest in terms of creating something wonderful.
So I think that's a really typical approach by Japanese people and I think that could be an inspiration for many people around the world because we talk too much about goals and not enough about specifics and small things.
The Importance of Nagomi (Harmony) in Japanese Culture
Ken released a book titled, The Way of Nagomi: Live Harmoniously the Japanese Way; his book focuses on the importance of the concept of nagomi (harmony). For Ken, nagomi is similar to love, as it is one of the most important things to have in our life.
Nagomi is an important concept in Japanese culture and history
Nick: Why did you choose nagomi as the subject of your latest book?
Ken: I know it's kind of a difficult word to understand at the beginning, but I do believe that nagomi is actually what, for example, love is to many people. I mean, when you think about life, there are many values like money, social status, work, and so on.
But many people would agree that love is one of the most important things from which all your pleasures and motivations would arise. Nagomi is something like that, I mean, nagomi is a really important concept. The important concept in Japanese history, culture, and so on.
So all these wonderful ideas coming from Japan, for example, ikigai, Ichigo ichie, Kintsugi, Gaman, or Kodawari -- all these things. I mean, these things actually can be considered as coming from this simple, one idea, nagomi.
So nagomi is that important, it is in the first Constitution of Japan, and in the seventh article of the Constitution back in eight hundreds, I don't recall, I'm not really great with historical numbers. And it is the name of the train that the Emperor rides on. It's a specially designed, really wonderful train, and the name is Nagomi.
So nagomi is actually many things -- it is harmony, balance, and so on. I think it's really important to understand this concept if you're interested in Japanese philosophy of life and culture.Finding Peace with Your Enemy
Japanese are known for their resilience; even when faced with difficult situations, they still keep on striving. Ken shares that the reason for that is because nagomi (harmony) is at the core of Japanese resilience; they come to be in harmonious relationships with difficulties.
Japanese resilience is all about finding peace with your enemy
Ken: If you come to Japan, of course you've been here, you would be surprised that many shrines, many Shinto shrines, are established in memory of a defeated enemy. It's something really human to do.
I think, when you are in a battle, of course, you fight. The samurai warriors used to fight really, really ferocious -- that's the way of the Samurai. But when they defeat the enemy, out of respect, and out of maybe repentance, not so much repentance, but out of the fact that this individual has been a really wonderful guy. So sometimes you establish a shrine to commemorate your enemy.
Some people say that was because people were afraid that their ghosts would come back, and haunt you. So there might have been some selfish, practical reasons for that. But in any case, I think it's in the deep roots of Japanese society, to respect even your enemies and archrivals.
You try to establish a nagomi with your adversary, and I think that is at the core of the Japanese concept of resilience. You don't try to overcome something that is objecting to your goals. I mean, like, you don't know what mother nature would do at any time. So no matter what preparations we might make, or how well we might be equipped to cope with natural disasters, the Japanese philosophy is to somehow come to be in harmonious relationships with even your natural disasters.
So, I think that is the core of the Japanese idea of resilience. And if you know, it's at the core of the relationship between men and women. Contrary to popular belief, Japanese women are quite strong. Maybe you know, you have firsthand knowledge of that. Even a really strong Japanese man would have to find nagomi with his girlfriend or wife.
So, this idea of resilience is tightly coupled with the concept of nagomi (harmony). It's not defeating your enemy, it's rather finding peace with your enemy, if you can, even in difficult situations.Establish Harmony Within Yourself Through Continuous Learning
The Japanese people have a term tokowaka (forever young), and to be forever young, they believe that people should keep learning. Ken explains that when people learn something new, they also discover something new about themselves, feeling forever young because of constant change. Hence, they can understand and know themselves better -- having harmony within themselves.
You become a new self through learning
Nick: How important do you think it is that we have this curiosity and this desire to continually learn?
Ken: Yeah, so this nagomido, actually, I coined this. I think, because if I Googled this word, when I finished writing the book, there were no matches, except mine. So I think it is a new word.
But anyway, I think it's very important. Like judo, Judo is actually when you try to establish a dynamic nagomi with your opponent. In Judo, you have a thing in Judo, which literally means, if you're flexible, you can defeat a strong person. That is the whole idea of judo, Ju, literally meaning, being flexible, balanced, and in peace.
So there's this idea that even when you are facing your opponent, you really need to establish nagomi. And so the same applies to learning too, I mean, in Japan, we have this concept of forever young, tokowaka.
In order to stay forever young, you really need to keep learning all your life. That is also really great to ameliorate and prevent dementia, and Alzheimer's disease, which is really probably the most single important issue related to brain health today.
I think it is very important to keep on learning, finding nagomi within yourself, because, you know, this is something quite profound, I think, and something that I probably didn't articulate so much as I hoped, in my book.
Which is, when you learn something, for example, when you went to Japan, you do experience many, many things. But in that process, you try to establish a nagomi with your new self. You know what I mean?
I mean, you become a new self through learning. That's what happened when I went to the UK. I really love to learn the British sense of humour. I know Boris Johnson is having trouble in London.
Even in these cases, when you listen to people's conversations, there's a touch of humour in what the British people say. And of course, Australia is very much culturally related to Britain.
So I'm sure there will be an Australian equivalent of British humour, Australian humour? I mean, when I went to the UK, I really found a new nagomi with my new self. In that sense, you become forever young, because you are constantly changing.Living Harmoniously: The Key to Finding a Long and Healthy Life
For Ken, Japan is a country where people's life expectancies are long. One reason for this is how they live harmoniously; Japanese people don't have the pressure of competing with each other. They continuously improve their crafts without comparing themselves to others.
Living in harmony is essential for long and healthy life
Ken: In Tokyo, where I live, we think we have certain elements of the Western culture, because Tokyo is one of the hubs of the global economy. So we do find these people who are aggressive and assertive, and they try to present his/her case into a new command zone.
But if you go to Kyoto, for example, the ancient capital, those people in power, these priests from the temple and all these houses of great cultural tradition, tea masters and flower arrangement, ikebana masters, they keep such a low profile. I mean, they don't have to assert themselves everyday.
If you go to a really great restaurant, the chefs of these restaurants would not boast about how great their cuisine, I mean, they just behave in a way just like you just described, in a really naturalistic, subdued, low profile way. That's the Kyoto way.
So I think with that, Kyoto would probably be more authentically Japanese compared to a more buoyant and more competent Tokyo. But even in Tokyo, I do feel that the culture is kind of different from the American way of pushing yourself up to the front.
Nick: Now it reminds me, I guess, it reminds me of my father-in-law. I think I've mentioned to you that he's a potter, and he makes shino yaki, and he's very good at what he does. But if you met him, you just would know, and he'd never talk up what he does.
So I certainly learned a lot of lessons about just being yourself and doing what you love, and just let your work express yourself rather than your words. There's no sense of self promotion, certainly with my father-in-law. I think he's done quite significant work. And he could certainly talk about it.
Ken: It has practical implications, or even existential implications, because as you know, Japan is a country where people's life expectancies are long. The Japanese are probably the most healthy, and the longest living nationals on this planet. I think, well, of course, there are many elements like genetics, and food, and lifestyle, but the lack of this pressure to compete with each other.
I think, this harmony that the Japanese lifestyle has, is probably the key to finding a long and healthy life.
Shakkei: Borrowed Scenery
Ken explains that in Japan, they often use nature as part of human creation. They establish harmony between their design and the environment; instead of damaging the environment, they incorporate it with their creations.
Incorporate nature into your creations
Nick: You're also right, a person can often shine more when flanked by people. This is why often we call our partners our better half.
But in your book, you introduced this beautiful cultural concept of shakkei, to represent this idea. And I was fascinated when I read this, because again, this was another cultural practice, I didn't know. So what is shakkei?
Ken: When we build our garden, sometimes we use the natural background as part of the gardening principle, and it's called shakkei. So I don't know if this is working. So if you have a house like this, if this is the garden, this is a Japanese garden and the trees. So this is what the designer designed. But on top of that, you might have a mountain in the background like this.
There might be some structures previously constructed. So, you know, these external motifs are always used to make a good Japanese garden. The most famous example would be one in Kagoshima Prefecture, called, Isoteien, there's this huge volcano there called Sakurajima.
It's an active volcano. If you go to this garden, you can see that they have used the Sakurajima volcano as part of the landscape. So that is the philosophy of shakkei. You see it everywhere in royal gardens in Kyoto, you also see shakkei.
So it is an idea that you don't treat the environment as something that is external to your creation. You actually design your creation in nagomi with the environment. I think it's a really wonderful concept. My really great friend, architect Kengo Kuma, designed the new National Stadium that was used in the 2021 Tokyo Olympics.
And Kengo Kuma always says this is the most important concept in his architecture, defeat. He always talks about defeated architecture, by which he means that it's defeated by the environment. In modern times, architects tend to impose his or her own ideas on the building, right?
So that he or she can express themself, but Kengo Kuma, who designed the new National Stadium always says about being defeated by the environment. I think this is wonderful, and I'm really proud of the new stadium for it.
You should definitely visit because there are trees growing from the stadium already. That was his idea. So being defeated by the plants, it looks like one of these Studio Ghibli animations by Hayao Miyazaki. It's the whole stadium being defeated by plants.
Nick: It almost seems to take on Shintoism. This understanding that the natural world is something we can't control, we should embrace it and let it influence us.Ikigai Being Widely Known
Japanese culture and traditions have had a significant impact on other countries, and the concept of ikigai is a prime example of this influence.
Ikigai is everywhere
Ken: Hi, as Nick introduced me, I am a neuroscientist, author, and broadcaster, based in Tokyo. My affiliations are: Sony computer, Science Lab, University of Tokyo, and I’m actually the head master of Ozora High School, which has actually 12,000 students. It’s a correspondence-based high school in Japan.
So if you’re interested in Sony, or University of Tokyo, or Ozora High School, please do get in touch with me. Because, for example, you want to talk to some senior high school students, then you can do that. If you want to visit the University of Tokyo, please do. And if you want to ask some questions about Sony, while it’s a corporate lab, so you know, there are some restrictions, but you can do that, too.
Now, with much further ado, as you know, Japanese culture and tradition have been influencing the world over the years. One famous example is The Book of Tea by Kazuo Okakura. This is what you call, probably ‘the bible of tea ceremony and the spirit of Zen.’
The other one is Bushido: The Soul of Japan by Nitobe Inazo, and this shows you how the samurai warriors used to live, their ethics and so on. And of course, Marie Kondo, about tidying up — sparkle joy, you know this, right?
And now, we have ikigai. It is about the significance of living, and the reason you get up in the morning. Ikigai is a combination of two words: iki means life, and gai means reason, so ikigai is literally ‘the reason for living.’
And my book, The Little Book of Ikigai or Awakening Your Ikigai, is now translated into 29 languages, in 31 countries, including Russia (I needed to make that joke). So these are some of the books in many languages, and probably what you might have one copy of that.
Now, ikigai has been covered in many talks, shows, medias, like CNN, Wallstreet Journal, and Suddeutsche Zeitung. So Ikigai is very much in the air these days.
Mindfulness: Being in the Here and Now
What can meditation do to our body? Ken talks about how ‘being in the here and now’ can enhance one’s sense of ikigai.
Finding inner balance
Ken: So Ikigai is very much in the air these days, and I’m going to describe the Five Pillars of Ikigai, according to my book. The first pillar is ‘being in the here and now.’ Maybe you’ve heard about mindfulness, this is a very important piece of Japanese philosophy that is becoming popular nowadays.
And it has very much to do with Zen meditation. It’s a very important part of Japanese philosophy of life. There’s a famous temple in Kyoto. This is non other than Queen Elizabeth, she made a visit to the Ryoanji temple from a visit she made to Japan, and she really appreciated this temple.
This greatly traditional Zen meditation is very much carried forth at Eiheiji temple in Fukui. If you go there, you would meet this Zen priest. This is somebody who carried the torch to North America, Kobun Otogawa.
He was famously the mentor of Steve Jobs, and Kobu Otogawa actually was the master of ceremony at Steve Job’s wedding. Anyway, back to Eiheiji temple in Fukui, so this is not a cinema, this is real-life, this is what you get when you go to Eiheiji temple. If Nick becomes a Buddhist priest, he can do that always, he would be exposed to this kind of this training scheme.
It’s quite interesting, you know, I’m a neuroscientist, I study the brain, it is found that when you meditate, that so-called default mode network is activated. There are many functions of the default mode network.
But in a nutshell, the default mode network is activated when the brain goes into that relaxing mode, when the brain starts mind wandering, when you have daydreams. It will sort out your memory system and also DMN will reduce your stress level.
It is known that walking can also activate the default mode network in your brain. So you don’t have to be a Buddhist priest. Of course, the Buddhist priest would carry things to extreme sometimes.
One thing is what they call 1,000 days circling the mountains, Sennichi Kaihogyo. And in this ritual, the priest go on a hike in the night mountain for 40kms or so, and for 1,000 days. And this is considered to be one of the most difficult training to achieve as a Buddhist priest.
But you don’t really have to do that extreme thing. You can just take a walk, casual walk. And in Buddhism, there’s a thing called Walking Zen Meditation. The idea is that, just by walking, you can practise Zen meditation.
So this is something you could probably try, you know, when you walk around the Australian bush or European forest. Anyway, related to this, the shinrin-yoku, forest bathing, is very much popular nowadays. This idea that by taking a walk in the forest, you can activate your default mode network in the brain, and then many other health benefits.
This idea that you immerse in a certain environment, comes from, example, this idea about Onsen hotspring. If you have been to Japan, Onsen hotsprings are very popular. Even monkeys enjoy Onsen hotspring. This is not a film, again, this is real.
This is what actually happens in some mountain areas in Japan. So monkeys know how to meditate in the hotspring. So in a nutshell, being in the here in now helps you build an inner balance, and this is really an important part of ikigai.
Finding Joy in the Little Things
In a world that often glorifies extraordinary achievements, it's easy to overlook the beauty of the ordinary. Ken shares how focusing on life’s small joys can lead to a feeling of ikigai.
Life’s small joys
Ken: Now, the second pillar of ikigai is ‘the joy of little things.’ Japan is very good at perfecting life’s little joys. From sushi to sweets, and origami. And from a neuro-scientific point of view, it is related to the dopamine system.
Dopamine, as you know, is a reward molecule in the brain. When dopamine is released, there is something that goes on in the brain called reinforcement learning. This is very important because artificial intelligence systems, like the large language models, for example, chatgpt, you’ve heard about it, I’m sure.
They are based on this mechanism of reinforcement learning. So they are kind of imitating the brain. And it is very important to have many sources for dopamine release in your life. So you just don’t pursue your life’s big goals. It will be great if you could have many beautiful things that would make your brain tick, so that you can carry on. So this is the ‘portfolio’, if you like, of things that would pleasure you, right?
So in life, there are small things and big things. Small things would be like taking your dog for a walk or have a cup of tea. And big things could be achievements in career or success in business. In Western culture, for example, by authors of self-help books in the United States, the big things tend to be emphasised.
But Japanese philosophy tends to regard everything on equal footing. So everything is important. This is very much related to mindfulness, because mindfulness is about attending to things, whether they are small or big.
And in Japan, there’s this idea of ‘Eight million Gods.’ Of course, in the modern world, many people are atheists. I'm agnostic. Many people don’t believe in traditional God anymore. But the Japanese attitude toward God is very unique. The Japanese theology has been always centred around this idea of ‘Eight million Gods.’
And eight million literally means infinity. So there’s this sense of diversity in life, and this is very much related to the joy of little things, right? So you don’t just pay attention to big goals. Of course, big goals are important, but at the same time, you attend to the eight million goals of life’s small joys.
And that is the second pillar of ikigai.
The Japanese Way of Harmony and Sustainability
Despite technological advancements, Japan has shown a remarkable commitment to preserving its rich cultural heritage. Ken provides examples that showcase Japan’s dedication to maintaining harmony and sustainability.
The Japanese idea of being forever young
Ken: The third pillar is harmony and sustainability. I’m sure Nick knows about this, the Meiji Jingu Shrine in the heart of Tokyo, it’s a very beautiful place to visit. And it is rated very highly on Tripadvisor.
Now, this shrine is not so old. I mean, the Meiji Emperor did a really great job in the modernisation of Japan. And when he passed away, the Meiji Jingu Shrine commemorating the Meiji emperor, was built from scratch from this former pasture land.
So this is how it used to be. Now it is a pristine forest, because botanists gathered 365 kinds of trees from all over Japan. And this is what you have today. It’s a wonderful example of an artificially planned forest. It’s so beautiful, in the heart of Tokyo, a bustling metropolitan city.
Another example is The Ise Grand Shrine in the Western part of Japan. Maybe Nick has been there, too. The Ise Grand Shrine is the home of the Sacred Mirror, one of the three important treasures of the imperial household.
And extraordinarily, the shrine buildings have been rebuilt every 20 years for the last 1,300 years. So this is how it is done. The other half is the old building, and the below is the exact copy of the same shrine buildings.
So the idea is that it’s always renewed. This is the Japanese idea of forever young. You turn things around and you rebuild things, and by that way, you can live forever young. That is the Japanese idea of being forever young.
And this is one of the Shinto pictures, very picturesque, again, this is not cinema, this is real-life, although it does look like cinema. So to rebuild the shrine every 20 years, they have to plan things very carefully. Because it takes hundreds of years for the role to be prepared.
They have a special forest reserve, so that they can use the roles to build the shrine every 20 years. So it’s an ideal example, I think, of sustainable growth. This is a ceremony in the Ise Shrine Forest, you should really go there.
So this is the idea about sustainability that is actualised in Japanese history. Nurturing and maintenance of forests in Japan, especially those associated with Shinto Shrines, is a great lesson in harmony and sustainability. And this is a very important pillar of ikigai.
Releasing Yourself: Expressing Your True Feelings
Ken talks about how intimate moments provide us with the opportunity to express our true selves.
A form of self-expression
Ken: Now, releasing yourself. In Japan, we use these words honne and tatemae. Honne is one’s true heart, and tatemae is social appearances depending on the context. For example, when I talk with Nick, we are great friends, so we talk with our true heart, and that is honne.
But when you’re not so familiar with somebody, you might come up with some tatemae, social appearances. So the Japanese people use these two things. So enkai, the Japanese way of drinking together is a great opportunity to release yourself, and say you’re honne.
Yasujiro Ozu is a very famous Japanese director, and he uses this context of tatemae and honne, true heart and social appearances, beautifully in his films. And this is a typical izakaya, it’s a drinking place in Japan, and this is actually something familiar because I go there quite regularly, it’s called Asari, and it’s near the Sony Computer science laboratory.
So when I go to the Sony lab, sometimes I go to this exact place with my friend, and it’s really wonderful. So the Japanese psyche is made of two layers, you have true heart, honne, and then tatemae, social appearances.
And a real friendship, like the one with Nick Kemp and I, we talk to each other through our true heart. But at the same time, you have social appearances. So this is a kind of a mechanism which we communicate with people in Japan.
And it is related to grooming. This is really funny, I mean, monkeys groom each other and they build social bond and release endorphins, and so on. This professor from Oxford University, Robin Dunbar, has been studying the relationship between the size of the neocortex and mean clique size. Clique here means with harmony, monkeys would be grooming together.
And in humans, Dunbar number, the number of grooming size is actually about 150. So if you have somebody whom you have occasional conversation with, and that is about 150, then you are using your brain great. But if you have less than 150 friends, maybe you can extend your social round.
The Japanese version of small talk, zatsudan, is characterised by the diversity of topic, without any particular agenda. So in zatsudan, small talk, you release yourself, whether in the izakaya or not, and by expressing your honne, you can tell other person in the zatsudan your true heart and you can release.
You know, Japanese culture is very great in releasing one’s self. Like in karaoke, you wouldn’t have dreamt in the Western culture that amateurs would sing in front of people because it’s so intimidating. It’s not Australia’s Got Talent . It’s not that Japan’s Got Talent. You can sing clumsily, but you can enjoy yourself, and this is a very important aspect of ikigai, releasing yourself.
Starting with Small Achievable Goals
Have you taken the time to define your goals? Although it's good to have big ambitions, Ken explains the importance of starting with small goals.
You can start very small
Ken: The final pillar of ikigai is starting small. This is a very famous sushi restaurant in the heart of Tokyo. I’ve been there only a few times, and it’s not really easy to make a reservation at the Sukiyabashi Jiro.
Famously President Obama, when he visited to Tokyo, he went there and had a really wonderful dinner. So you’d be lucky if you can get a reservation at Sukiyabashi Jiro. Anyway, Jiro Ono, I think, he’s 97, maybe now, and the world’s oldest Michelin three stars chef.
This is Jiro Ono as a child. You would think that since his sushi restaurant is such a wonderful place, he would had aspired to do that from childhood. But actually, that’s not the case. Jiro Ono became a sushi chef not because he aspired to be a Michelin three stars chef welcoming the President of the United States, but simply because a sushi restaurant was the cheapest to open.
He had a humble childhood and he couldn’t really earn a lot of money to start with. But you can start very small. I mean, you can start from a very small sushi restaurant and gradually build from that.
So you actually might have some really big dreams, but it’s always a great idea to start small rather than aim at big things from the beginning. So these have been the five pillars of ikigai.
For the full podcast conversations, go to:
Rock Star Neuroscientist, Ken Mogi’s 5 Pillars of Ikigai