Clark Chilson on Naikan: Unveiling the Connection to Ikigai

*Watch the full playlist above.

Naikan: A Self-Reflective Form of Meditation

Have you heard of Naikan therapy?

As Clark describes it, Naikan is a meditative self-reflection practice that focuses on three questions: What have I received that's positive from other people? What have I given back that's positive to other people? And what troubles and difficulties have I caused other people? With these, Naikan can be considered a form of meditation fixated on these three questions.

Naikan is a disciplined practice of self-reflection

Nick: We obviously connected, I reached out to you, and we had a few emails. And you suggested that we talked about Naikan and how it relates to the cultivation of ikigai, which I thought was absolutely perfect. So we'll get into that. But I think we need to touch on what Naikan is. So how would you describe or define Naikan?

Clark: So I would simply describe it as a self-reflection practice, a meditative self-reflection practice, that focuses on three questions. What have I received that's positive from other people? What have I given back that's positive to other people? And what troubles and difficulties have I caused other people?

And it's the disciplined practice of self-reflection using those questions, is how I would most simply define Naikan. I would also suggest that it's a type of meditation, and that meditation is about attention regulation, but disciplined attention regulation.

So often, in mindfulness meditation, this is attention to the breath, or body sensations. In other forms of meditation, it could be attention regulation, using a mantra. In Naikan, the attention regulation is through those three questions. So it's also a form of meditation.

The Advantages of Doing Naikan Therapy

According to Clark, Naikan benefits may vary from person to person, depending on their purpose. However, the common effect of Naikan on people is that people see themselves differently after doing it.

People do Naikan for various purposes

Nick: Back to Naikan, I guess some listeners might be thinking, why would you do this? So what are the benefits? And I know there's all these applications or history of the application of Naikan which is fascinating. So yeah, what are the benefits of doing Naikan? 

CLark: Right, so it depends on the person. I think when I did Naikan, I did it because I had a graduate student who was a Buddhist monk, and he wrote a paper on Naikan for independent study with me. And I have known Naikan just by reading about it. And then after he did his independent study I thought I'll try Naikan.

I mean, he was working in the prison and he was using Naikan in the prison here in Pittsburgh. I was like wow, you actually learned something useful. Actually, you learnt something practical. So I thought I'm gonna try naikan when I go to Japan. And so that's why I did. I did it just to try it. 

And believe me on the second day, I was thinking I should not have done this. So in my case, I didn't do it for any particular benefit, but a lot of times people do it, I would say slightly more than half of the people that do it, maybe 60% is because they're having a serious problem, that they could not make progress on doing anything else.

I mean, it might not be the last resort, but it's pretty close to the last resort for a lot of people. It's a rare person who's suffering from a problem that thinks, oh, I'm gonna go do Naikan. And the problems could be various; it could be addiction problems, that could be psychosomatic problems, they could be gambling problems, real difficulties with a child or spouse.

So I'd say about 60% of people do it to solve some specific problem. And then about 30 or so percent of people do it as a form of self-cultivation, they want to be better at something. So, it was a baseball player who did it who thought it might help with his hitting in Japan, and managers, company managers do it, because they want to become a better manager.

And then the last 10% is a whole mixture of a bunch of different things. So, people are looking for some spiritual experience, people who worked for a company and a company sent them, and people who work in corrections, or jails -- things like that.

Self-Centered and Other Person-Centered Guilt

After reflecting on the troubles they have caused others, it is normal for people to feel guilt; according to Clark, there are two different types of guilt: self-centered and other person-centered guilt, in Naikan, people experience the latter, where they focus on the difficulties they have given to others, and look for ways to make their relationships better.

Naikan will make people feel guilty

Clark: So typically, many people in the English language world have a real problem with guilt. And it's important because they have a very specific understanding of what guilt is. And guilt is a complex emotion that can be driven by different mental vectors. 

And I just want to outline two types of guilt that I think are important to distinguish when it comes to thinking about guilt and Naikan in relation to guilt. Naikan will make people feel guilty. In some ways, if it is making people feel guilty, this is usually a good sign.

But here's the important thing to realise, most people think of guilt in the sense of being a very self-centred type of guilt. In other words, guilt about being I'm bad, it's about me and I should be a better person. And that was terrible of me. And it's very self-centred. And very self-centred guilt is destructive. 

That's bad guilt. That is not a healthy, constructive type of guilt. But there is another type of guilt, which is other person centred, which can be healthy, because it's a guilt that says, I want to repair that relationship, I hurt this other person, I was not kind to that other person in that situation, I could have done better, I should have done better. And now I want to do something about it. 

And so the guilt is not focused on me, and how I'm a bad person, that guilt is focused on the pain and suffering of the other person. And so therefore instils a motivation to want to repair that relationship. And that is a healthier form of guilt. Unfortunately, most people only think about guilt as the first type. And it's in part because we're naturally selfish.

Nick: Well, I think that's a significant distinction. And that actually reminds me of this expression meiwaku kakenaide in Japanese that I remember learning. And it translates to "don't cause trouble for others." 

The Japanese are very aware of not causing trouble to others. And I share a story from another episode where I was shocked that this father's parting greeting to his three year old daughter at kindergarten would be meiwaku kakenaide, like don't cause trouble today. 

Whereas I was sort of cuddling my son and I love you. I was stunned, but it sort of took me a few conversations with my wife and other people to realise that he is also sort of saying be a good girl today. And so, that idea of the guilt where you've caused trouble to others, you'd want to repair that or fix that or make peace with that so you could move on, I think makes sense. Rather than thinking, I'm a bad evil person or something. That totally makes sense.

Connecting with Others Is Essential for Living a Meaningful Life

People are so focused on becoming the best version of themselves that they forget to pay attention to their relationships with others. Clark believes that the sense of connection gives people a sense of meaning. Thus, it's also vital to give importance to our relationships.

Connecting with other people is fundamental

Clark: The way the world largely works, as I see it today is there's a lot of emphasis on the individual trying to make themselves feel good. And the ways that people try to do that are often not conducive to their well-being.

They try to make themselves feel good by just being around people who they like being around. Or doing things that make them feel good. There's this concept that's really kind of taken off, called self-care, right? 

And when I ask students, because my students are much younger than me, I ask students, what does self-care entail? Like, what are your self care strategies? And almost everything they tell me is like things they're going to do by themselves: I'm going to take a bath, I'm going to take a nap, I'm going to buy myself some really nice shoes or something.

And so they come up with all these activities which are very self focused. And maybe one way we can do better self-care is by being with other people in richer ways.

Nick: That really speaks to me the other day on a Twitter thread that got a lot of comments. It was this theme of self-reliance and the power of being independent, and it was getting all these positive responses.

I was pretty tempted to say, hang on, we're not as independent as we'd like to believe we are, and we're very much dependent on the service or help of other people. 

To pride ourselves and being I can do it all by myself, I don't need help; I'm not sure that there is some positivity to that we should be self reliant. But I actually love the Japanese word for self,  they have many words for self, but that word, Jibun 自分 , where you realise from the kanji, you yourself, but you're a part.

And you are a part of a community or a neighbourhood of community, a country, the world. And we're trying, as you pointed out, to be by ourselves thinking that's the answer to our problems. 

And just the other day, like, five days ago, I went to toastmasters for the first time. And so I thought, I'm being a bit vulnerable, I'm exposing myself to something new. I met all these people and had a fantastic time, and I can't wait to go back in two weeks.

It didn't cost any money, I didn't have to really do anything other than walk in a room and start talking to people and start learning something new. And that was probably the highlight of my week. So I think you're right, we need to spend time with more people and people maybe we don't know -- new people.

Clark: The sense of connection usually gives people a sense of meaning. And so connecting with other people, I think is really fundamental, even if it's only one other person, as in the case of your father, and I suspect that he may have had other relationships through work, even if they were not friends, but certainly we have to take care of other people through work and other things. 

But connecting with other people is fundamental to living a meaningful life. And if we feel like we're not connected with other people, if the only reason we're living for is to kind of feed our desires, we're going to feel pretty lonely, there's just not much meaning in that.

We Got This Little Space to be Alive

Rather than think about what makes him happy or chase after happiness, Clark shares that it is better to acknowledge how fortunate he is to be alive because life is magical, and we have this little space where we live in.

If you chase after happiness, you're not going to find it

Nick: What would you say are some of your ikigai? Because you can obviously have more than one.

Clark: I want to be frank, I typically don't ask myself this question. And I think that when I don't feel the urge to ask the question, I probably have the greatest sense of ikigai. When I'm happy, I don't think about how happy I am, or maybe occasionally I do, but I'm just like, I'm living life, I feel like oh, this is nice.

I typically don't ask myself what my ikigai is. I will say this, however, I feel incredibly fortunate. I feel incredibly fortunate because I am very fortunate, and I think that being able to just live, this is gonna sound a little bit too dramatic maybe, but the fact that we're here for this very limited time and kind of like just being alive, it's kind of like living in a mystery, it's kind of magical.

Billions of years existed before we had human consciousness as far as we know, before we were a person, and billions of years are gonna go on after. So we got this little space to be alive, this is magical. And to just live in the magic of life. Sometimes I do feel incredibly fortunate and lucky.

It's gonna sound ridiculous, but what's there not to love about being alive? And I get that there's pain, but a lot of times, I just feel like it's great just to be alive and healthy and have this life.

Nick: That could be a very powerful activity to reflect on, the odds of you being alive and how all these people had to meet, going back from generation to generation, to now to be alive. And then for life to exist, and going back billions of years. So it is the ultimate jackpot that we're alive. And yeah, I think being present to that. I like that point.

Clark: It's precious.

Nick: I do like that idea that if you're not thinking about ikigai, it probably means you're expressing it or living it or appreciating it. So it's not something that we have to take too seriously, as well. We can just go and enjoy our friendships, our hobbies, we don't have to be chasing the dream.

Clark: Somebody said all the TED talks on happiness are basically giving the same message. I have not verified whether this is true or not. But the person said, happiness is the product of living well, it is not realised by chasing it. 

If you chase after happiness, you're not going to find it, you're just going to be dissatisfied. And that I think conceptually that's true. If I'm asking myself how happy I am, I'm usually like I'm pretty happy. But I could be happier.

While if I just say I'm just living, and I just think like, wow, this is amazing. This is amazing that I get to have this life. And I've been incredibly fortunate.

For the full podcast conversation, go to: Naikan and its relation to the cultivation of ikigai with Dr. Clark Chilson