Naikan and Morita Therapy: Insights from Carly Taylor

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Learning About Morita Therapy and Naikan

Morita Therapy and Naikan are practices that originated in Japan; both can be helpful to our daily living, as they teach us to accept our emotions and reflect on our relationships. Carly shares how she learnt about these two practices and how they made an impact on her life.

Wherever your attention is, it's how you shape your life

Carly: I think it was probably about three months later, I found myself on a plane bound for Vermont, and left my two kids, I think they were seven and 11, or maybe six and 10.

I hadn't left them before, so it was a really big deal for me that I went over to Vermont and spent two weeks at the ToDo Institute in this fully immersive experience of Morita therapy and Naikan with Gregg and his beautiful wife, Belinda, and also, Trudy Boyle was there as well. 

So it really changed my approach to my life. I remember distinctly, the very first thing that Gregg said to us in the first lesson, he said: "Your life is not based on your life, your life is based on what you pay attention to." 

And this was a huge wow moment for me. And just the fact that you could use your attention, and this is this powerful tool that you have, and wherever your attention is, it's how you shape your life. I've never even thought about that before. 

And I think it ties in beautifully with ikigai. And also around acceptance as well -- acceptance that as part of the human experience, we experience these thoughts. These automatic thoughts and emotions, and Morita said, to mess with this is like messing with nature, because it's human nature.

Of course once the thought is there, and emotion is there, we can then try and influence it, that these automatic thoughts that just pop up, we can't control those. So accepting that, and coexisting with that, that's what Morita therapy is kind of all about. So it just made so much sense to me.

Nick: It is fascinating. And it's certainly something I'd like to explore more. And it's interesting how you intuitively kind of picked up on these problems with food, it's a coping mechanism to another deeper problem.

I guess, generally, in Western psychology, maybe we dive deep into the emotions and the past, whereas in Eastern psychology, or at least with what I know, from Morita therapy, it's about "don't focus on that, just accept them and understand that that's sort of the true nature of things." 

We have these pleasant or unpleasant emotions, and we can't really change them. And these thoughts that just pop into our head, we can't control. But the only thing we can do is direct our focus and attention and then take some sort of action. And so it just seems to make sense, as well.

Carly: Yeah, it makes so much sense. It's really difficult, especially if you're going through intense emotions, because it's uncomfortable, and as humans, we don't like to feel uncomfortable, we want to solve the problem and we want to get rid of it. And that's when we go into this sort of analysis of why am I feeling like this, I shouldn't be feeling like this. 

And the more our attention is on that, the more we pay attention to the struggle; trying to get rid of them, it's like throwing fuel on the fire, it can just grow. Whereas if you use your attention and try to put your attention on the external world, and not so much on what's happening internally, the ultimate goal is to not get rid of the emotions, but it's also an acceptance that emotions come and go like the weather.

And yes, it might be uncomfortable now, but it won't be uncomfortable forever. And then put your attention on the needs of the moment and what needs to be done in that moment.

The Four A’s Approach to Morita Therapy

Aside from the classic Morita therapy, there's an outpatient approach that is much more suited for Western culture. Carly calls it the four A's: awareness, acceptance, attention, and action.

It is essential for people to practice the four A's

Nick: So let's dive into Morita therapy. And this is something I discussed with Dr. Holly Sugg on podcast 27. So that would be an episode worth listening to. But how would you describe Morita therapy?

Carly: So Morita therapy, my experience in my training of Morita therapy is not the classic Morita therapy that Holly would have been talking about in her research. It's more I guess let's say, as an outpatient approach, and very much using these concepts and theories for us in the Western world. 

So when I talk about Morita therapy, I talk about the four A's. Gregg sets the three A's but I have added another A there: the first thing is awareness, so if we don't have self-awareness, if we don't reflect on ourselves and our behaviour, then there's little room for change there.

So self-awareness is just incredibly important, something I'm constantly working on. And then the second is acceptance, accepting that there are things in life that are within our control, and there are things in life that are not within our control, including our automatic thoughts and emotions.

Recognizing that if we focus on the things that are not in our control, that's when we can really spiral down, that's when we can really struggle. And then the third is attention. So it's awareness, acceptance, attention, which I'll probably talk about a lot, because I'm really passionate about where our attention is at any moment, and how that can affect our lives.

And then purposeful action, that's the fourth A, action. And when I say purposeful action, I don't mean this grandiose purpose that we need to discover -- it's the purpose in the moment. You know, even when we're washing our dishes, even when we're doing our taxes, or the boring kind of mundane stuff that we do every day, there is purpose in it. 

And I think to recognize that, we can get more into the present moment, and be more kind of accepting of where we're at. And using that attention can help us get out of our head and kind of into the life of what we're doing in that moment.

Nick: Awesome. So let's go through those four again, it was awareness, acceptance...

Carly: Yes, attention and action.

Nick: And you added the action?

Carly: Oh, no, I added awareness. So Gregg would talk about acceptance, attention, and action. And I'll give you an example, because I've just started uni. During my Master's in Counseling, I had my first assignment due the other week, and it was an academic assignment. And I just completely freaked out.

I don't think I've been so stressed for a long time about getting this assignment done. And my immediate thought was that I wanted to quit, like, that's how stressed I was about it. 

So I had to use my own tools and strategies just to bring myself into, okay, what is the purpose of me doing this? And using that arugamama, which I know you talk about a lot in your podcast, with things as they are what needs to be done. So accepting that, yes, I'm stressed, this is a normal response that I'm having.

And then really putting my attention on what I needed to do with taking my stress along with me. And I got the assignment done, and I handed it in and haven't got the result back yet.

Nick: Well done. This really does resonate with me, we all go through stress and fear and worry. And it can be so debilitating when you only focus on the fear and worry. And you have these imagined scenarios like, I won't be able to pay the rent or pay the bills, or people will think I'm a fraud, and you have these bizarre scenarios.

So then you're right, if you can get that awareness, and then kind of snap out of it and stop, like, what can I do? And if you start to act, one action leads to another, you get this momentum, and then you start to feel a bit better. And then you think I'll just focus on this now.

And then before you know it, you're feeling a bit more optimistic, the stress has gone to some degree, and then things seem to change because you've taken this proactiveness. But it never stops does it? 

A few months later, you'll be going through another struggle, and you will have to have that awareness to snap out of it, to eventually draw your attention to take action and accept what you can't change. But focus on what you can do.

What is Classic Morita Therapy?

Carly shares that classic Morita therapy is the original protocol Morita created for his in-house patients -- nature is part of the healing process; Morita had a beautiful indoor/outdoor space so patients could connect with the natural environment.

Being connected with nature is essential to our well-being

Nick: So yeah, do you want to touch a bit more on classic Morita therapy and what he encouraged his patients and I know he actually had his own process, which you mentioned to me, which sounds actually almost like a retreat.

Carly: Yeah, it does sound like a retreat. Because what reminded me as you were talking is in Morita, the environment was integral to the therapeutic process, because being connected with nature is part of that healing process.

So the first stage is isolation, but not a sensory isolation, there's always a therapist there, guiding or observing and being curious about the process that the patient's going through. 

But having that period, whether it's five to eight days of just being on their own in silence and able to really experience what's going on internally for them, and then you can imagine, at the end of the eight days, they're probably very keen to get out and do something, which is really interesting, because they come out, and they start doing sort of minor activities.

But what Morita found that was so important was that he had his patients at his home, and he set this up as an indoor/outdoor area, and he had a beautiful rock garden. 

There were animals there, there was a garden. And so eventually, as they move through the stages, they could go and start doing these activities. And what they found was that there was this heightened feeling of connection with nature.

And being curious about nature and being curious about the sounds and the smells, and the sights and the touch. And all of these were quite heightened. And that is that connection with nature that is so integral to the healing process. It's really interesting. 

And I guess this is kind of diverting a little bit, but it just reminds me with ego; my own experience is that part of my feeling of ikigai is being in nature, just having those small moments when I see a flock of birds, or, you know, I see things when I'm out and about and that feeling that I get from it. And it kind of links with that experience of that classic Morita therapy.

Nick: Yeah, I do find myself now wanting to walk every day at a local park. And I don't take my phone, I don't listen to music, I hear the sounds of the birds, the leaves rustling. And I'm beginning to wonder if at one stage, it'll become another pillar of health.

So we tend to focus on diet, exercise, sleep sort of become recognized as crucial, maybe the most important thing. But I wonder if we'll ever get to a point where they will say, you need to sleep eight hours a day, you need to eat some sort of balanced diet that's appropriate for your needs. 

And you need to exercise every day or three or four times a week intensely. And you need to spend half an hour every day in nature. I'm sure that will have to become a standard because it's such a healing experience to go out to nature and the fresh air and the sensory experience is amazing.

You can see beautiful flowers or leaves or sunlight through the trees and it does make you feel better.

Naikan as Gratitude on Steroids

Carly describes Naikan as gratitude on steroids because, through Naikan, people go through every detail in their daily lives and realize that they still have these things to be grateful for, no matter how hard life is.

Naikan is a deeper level of gratitude

Nick: You could be maybe also the only Australian I know, or maybe the only Australian who diligently practises Naikan every day. So would you like to describe your personal approach to Naikan and the benefits you experienced from doing it?

Carly: So I'm a big journaler, and I've journaled a lot. I've got boxes of journals since I was like six years old. So I just find it is such an important tool for self awareness and reflection. And Naikan, from my experiences, is the most effective journaling technique that I have ever done.

I don't do it on just one person, I will do it on the day in general. And so the three questions if people aren't familiar with it are: what have I received? What have I given? And what troubles and difficulties have I caused? 

And depending on the time that I've got, I normally just do dot points, but I will put as much information as possible. What this does is it really connects you so what have I received, if just say, my husband brought me a cup of tea, I could extend that to because I was sleeping and I'd had a really bad night's sleep.

And so just put some really descriptive words on the whole situation around when you were given this by someone. And I just find it just opens up my awareness of my life and the things that I'm given, the troubles and difficulties that I've caused, not that it is meant to put a guilt trip on me or that I deliberately did anything, but it is a real reflection on the impact that we have on the world around us.

So my son does as well. He's my 12 year old son, he started doing a Naikan each night, he's got his Naikan journal. And we will often sit around the dinner table and we'll do Naikan together. It's just such an effective self reflection exercise.

And it doesn't have to be, as I said, just on one person, and it can be just in general, and a great one to do with the kids.

Nick: Yeah, I noticed you describe it as gratitude on steroids.

Carly: Yes, it is. Because there's a heap of research on gratitude and its positive effects on our mental health. And I think with gratitude, I'm grateful for the sun shining today. I think sometimes we can become a bit desensitised to gratitude, whereas Naikan just goes deeper. Naikan can even go to this level that you would never think of. 

So, if you think of, when you get a plate of food, or when you're cooking, you think about how that food actually got into your kitchen: a farmer had to grow the food, a truck driver had to go and pick it up, somebody put it in the truck, and it was transported to the fruit and veg shop, somebody packed the shells, you came along and put it into a bag.

You got served by somebody hopefully with a smile, and then you took it home and the number of people that you are connected to who you don't even know that were responsible for getting the food on your plate. Like, that's gratitude on steroids.

Ikigai: Finding Joy in Your Life

Carly has been using ikigai in her presentations and sees a lot of positive feedback from her audience. Knowing about the authentic meaning of ikigai, people begin to understand that they can always find simple joys in their daily lives, even when faced with difficulties.

Ikigai is like a joy hunter

Nick: So let's talk about ikigai and how you stumbled upon ikigai. So when did that happen?

Carly: So I stumbled across ikigai, like most people, on the Venn diagram that comes up on all the Google searches, which hopefully you are going to influence that, and I bought Hector Garcia's book, Ikigai: The Japanese Secret to Happiness and Long Lasting Life.

But then after that, I still found it quite obscure and out of reach. I was kind of confused about what it was at that point. Then Trudy Boyle at the ToDo Institute talked about ikigai with such passion and her bringing ikigai into her work with terminally ill people, and that they could use ikigai to really live fully even with the illness. 

So that kind of sparked my memory. And then by chance, I stumbled across the Ikigai Tribe and you, and did your course. 

And that completely changed my course, and I understood the authentic ikigai, which is what you are wanting to get out there. And it's something that I've incorporated in my own life, and every day, and also with my clients as well. So thank you, Nick.

Nick: Thank you. It's been interesting, actually. Because every so often, I'll get an email from you saying, can I use this image? Or do you have this as a slide? And I'm like, awesome, you're using it. You're always very supportive of people who use ikigai. And yeah, you're right, you sort of touched on it. 

It was very important for me to find some evidence and not just talk about what I thought ikigai could be. So there has been a wonderful journey, interviewing all these amazing people, both Japanese and non-Japanese, who've either researched the concept that they've written on it, or that they actually try to implement it to help others and help themselves. 

And it's funny how for Japanese, it's a word they don't use often. And usually their ikigai source is something quite humble: a relationship, a hobby, a pet.

But behind it all, there's this fascinating growing body of research, I'm always using this phrase, growing body of research because that's what's happening from the 60s, with the research pioneer, Mieko Kamiya, to Ken Mogi writing a book or the work of Shintaro Kono and how it relates to leisure or ibasho. 

And all the sub theories like ibasho. So I can't get enough of it. And I'm so happy that you're using it. So do you want to talk about how you've used it? Because I know you've done several speeches and presentations. So how have you used it? And what's the response you're getting from your audience and clients?

Carly: There's such a link with Morita therapy and attention. Because if you think about where our minds go, like dwelling on the past or worrying about the future, none of those things are happening in the here and now. And if we can use our attention to bring us back into the here and now, we're more likely to tap into our ikigai. 

Coaching with my individual clients, I call it being a joy hunter. Especially if somebody feels that their life doesn't have any meaning and joy in it. And I think it was Gregg that said, even in the darkest days, you will find moments of joy.

And that's ikigai, it's crying out, even if I'm having a really bad day, and all these emotions are coming up, if I can just pause or just stop and look out the window, or just sit for a moment and enjoy my cup of coffee, that's when you can tap into ikigai. And it's almost like these moments of reprieve from all the other stuff that's going on. So that's kind of with my individual clients. 

And I think that's been the biggest impact is no matter what's going on, you can find joy in your life. And with the presentations, I think the response has been really, really good. It's almost like there's this relief that it's not a Venn diagram, and you don't have to get paid for it.

And it's not something you've got to go out and search for. But it's actually there to be. I think in that last podcast is the word cultivated. And I find that what people are doing is recognizing what their ikigai is when they haven't actually connected that before. There was one guy that said, surfing is his ikigai.

And he'd never thought about it before. But now it's got this meaning: it's like I love surfing. When he's out there, he just feels this, again, like a connection with nature. I'm sure it's like you're out on the sea and riding those waves, and it's amazing. 

And either that, or I've had people write to me and say that they are going to start recognizing what their ikigai is so they're going to start a hobby that they'd been putting off. And I think we're so busy with deadlines, and busy with life and getting places and kids going to activities and all that sort of stuff.

And even if you can find five minutes between waiting for your kids to put their shoes on, and getting out the door, there's an opportunity there to just tap into something. It's really amazing, ikigai has such a huge impact on me. It really has had such a positive impact on my life. It's been amazing.

For the full podcast episode, go to: The Benefits Naikan and Mortia Therapy of with Carly Taylor